Rare Kimura Variations

Okay, the "rare Kimura variations" thread. Let's pump the brakes on "rare" for a second, because I think we're sometimes confusing "uncommon in competition" with "just invented." The Kimura, at its core, is a shoulder lock. It’s an upper-body submission that has existed, in various forms, as long as people have been grappling. The specific grip and finishing mechanics popularized by Helio Gracie and named after Masahiko Kimura are a *refinement*, not an invention from whole cloth.

The idea that there are these secret, arcane "variations" waiting to be unearthed by someone scrolling through an old seminar DVD from 2007, or by a black belt with an hour to kill before class, just isn't quite right. What you're seeing are applications from different positions, or slight adjustments in the angle of force, or perhaps setups that exploit specific reactions. It's not a new submission; it's a new path to a known destination.

Take, for instance, the "reverse Kimura" from back control, or the "Kimura trap" systems that Lachlan Giles and John Danaher have systematized. Are these "rare variations"? No, not in the sense that they are fundamentally different submissions. They are incredibly sophisticated, high-percentage *systems* built around controlling the opponent's upper body with a Kimura grip. The genius isn't in discovering a "new" way to bend the shoulder, it's in recognizing the positional leverage that grip provides and building an entire scaffolding of attacks, sweeps, and further submissions from it.

The real innovation, and what makes these "variations" effective, isn't some mystical, rarely seen twist. It's the *intention* behind the application and the subsequent chain reactions. It's understanding that the Kimura grip is a universal remote control for the upper body, not just a finishing move. The "rarity" isn't in the move itself, it's in the consistent, high-level application of that principle across multiple positions. It's less about the unique flavor of ice cream and more about realizing you can put sprinkles on *any* flavor.

What do you all think? Are we giving too much credit to the idea of "new moves" when it's really "new applications"?

It is interesting to consider the lineage and popularization of the submission we now commonly refer to as the "Kimura," particularly in light of HoG Drama Desk's accurate assertion that the underlying mechanics of a shoulder lock are ancient. The specific naming of this technique in a martial arts context, however, solidifies around a very particular moment and individual: Masahiko Kimura.

Masahiko Kimura, a formidable judoka from Japan, toured Brazil in 1951, culminating in a much-publicized match against Hélio Gracie on October 23, 1951, at the Maracanã Stadium in Rio de Janeiro. Kimura, who was already a highly decorated judoka having won the All-Japan Judo Championship three times, faced Gracie under a ruleset that allowed for both throws and ground submissions. During the match, Kimura executed a reverse ude-garami, eventually breaking Hélio Gracie's arm when Gracie refused to tap. This specific technique, a shoulder lock involving gripping the opponent's wrist with one hand and encircling their triceps or elbow with the other, became synonymous with Kimura's name in the Brazilian jiu-jitsu community. Prior to this event, the technique was known as *ude-garami* within Kodokan Judo, with various inversions and applications.

The popularization of the term "Kimura" in BJJ circles, rather than "reverse ude-garami," is a testament to the cultural impact of that specific fight and Kimura's dominant performance. It is worth noting that while the technique itself was not invented by Kimura, his application of it against a prominent Gracie family member cemented its nomenclature in a way that perhaps no other single event could have. The evolution of "Kimura variations," then, often speaks to different entries, controls, and finishing mechanics that all target the same shoulder joint, building upon that original, impactful application.

Does the widespread adoption of "Kimura" over "reverse ude-garami" inadvertently diminish the historical depth of grappling techniques, or is it a natural and efficient form of nomenclature within a developing martial art?

Honestly, I think a lot of these "rare" variations are just not practical for most of us. As HoG Drama Desk mentioned, the core mechanics are key. When I'm rolling 3x a week, fitting it around work and getting the kids to soccer, I'm focused on hitting the fundamental Kimura from side control or half guard. I don't have the mat time or the recovery capacity anymore to drill five different ways to hit a Kimura from an inverted omoplata setup.

It's not about what's cool or 'next level'; it's about what you can execute consistently under pressure when you're 40 with bad knees. I'd rather spend that hour on the mats refining my escapes than trying to learn a variation I'll maybe hit once in a blue moon.

I can appreciate the exploration of variations, but speaking for myself, at 53 with two shoulder surgeries under my belt, my focus is always on preservation. I learned the fundamental Kimura from side control early on when I started at 47. My coach, Leo, emphasized controlled entries and finishes, which has been key. I don't attempt many of the flashy, high-amplitude variations because my shoulder mobility just isn't there anymore, especially on my left side. I find that a solid, basic setup and a clean finish from a dominant position are far more sustainable for my body than trying to force something intricate that puts undue stress on my joints. It's about training for longevity.

I was drilling the fundamental Kimura from side control with Sarah last Tuesday and had a tough time getting the angle right after I isolated the arm. My coach, Alex, walked over and mentioned that the "rare" part isn't necessarily a new grip, but often just a slight adjustment in foot placement or hip pressure that opens up the finish. He showed me how turning my hips just a little more toward her head gave me a much better bite.

It makes me wonder if a lot of these variations Dave mentions are just those small, subtle shifts that a higher belt has refined over years, rather than entirely different techniques. I'm still trying to get the basics down consistently, so exploring too many variations at once just feels like trying to run before I can walk.

I’ve been thinking about what Marcus said about the "rare" part often being a slight adjustment. A lot of what we call "variations" today, particularly with the Kimura, were often just how different practitioners adapted the move based on their body type or opponent in the earlier days.

Carlson Gracie Sr. used the Kimura (which they just called a double wrist lock back then) very effectively, and by reputation, he had many subtle setups that weren't "named" variations but were just part of his game. You see similar things with Rolls Gracie's approach to submissions; he was constantly evolving and integrating, not always labeling things. I recall seeing an old clip from a 1990s Vale Tudo match where a guy, I think from Renzo's camp, hit a double wrist lock from North-South that looked almost identical to a "modern" variation I saw taught last month. It’s all about adapting those core principles.