Most grapplers don’t know the second method of finishing a Kimura armlock

The Kimura, a submission widely recognized across grappling arts for its mechanical leverage against the shoulder, holds a fascinating place in the history of jiu-jitsu, not least for its direct association with Mitsuyo Maeda’s influence and the subsequent development of the art in Brazil. The discussion around "second methods" of finishing, as raised by Stephan Kesting and discussed in this thread, often implicitly highlights the evolution of technical understanding within the art itself, particularly when considering techniques that predate the systematic classification that occurred in the mid-20th century.

While the "Kimura" is universally understood today as a shoulder lock attacking the rotator cuff, the naming convention itself, assigned retrospectively by the Gracie family, refers to a specific individual and a pivotal event: Masahiko Kimura’s submission victory over Hélio Gracie in 1951 at Maracanã Stadium in Rio de Janeiro. This was not a technique *invented* by Kimura, but rather a standard armlock (ude-garami, or entangled armlock, in judo parlance) that he famously utilized. Maeda, who taught Carlos Gracie in the 1910s, would have certainly demonstrated such a technique as part of his *Kodokan Judo* curriculum, which was rooted in the teachings of Jigoro Kano. Maeda’s extensive travels, particularly his 1914 arrival in Brazil, marked a critical juncture for the dissemination of these grappling principles.

The assertion that "most grapplers don’t know the second method of finishing" for a Kimura lock points to a modern pedagogical emphasis that perhaps prioritizes the most direct or high-percentage application. Historically, techniques were often understood through a broader set of principles rather than rigid, step-by-step instructions. For instance, the very concept of "finishing" a submission could involve a continuum of pressure applications, not merely a singular, decisive motion. In the context of the ude-garami, the *Kodokan Judo* curriculum, as outlined in texts like Kawaishi's *My Method of Judo* (published in the 1950s, but reflecting earlier principles), would detail variations for application from different positions and against various forms of resistance. The "second method" could refer to a variety of adjustments—changing the angle of the shoulder, twisting the wrist, or shifting body weight—all designed to increase pressure without necessarily being a distinct, separate technique. This adaptability speaks to an earlier, less formalized approach to technique instruction that emphasized principle over strict sequence.

It would be interesting to consider if these "second methods" are more prevalent in older instructional materials, perhaps those predating the widespread adoption of sport jiu-jitsu rule sets that might implicitly favor certain high-percentage finishes over others. Is the modern focus on a singular finishing mechanic a consequence of competition, or a simplification for instructional purposes?

Alright, let's cut through some of the historical drapery Mat Historian is weaving about Maeda and the development of BJJ. While the *Kimura* as a named submission certainly exploded into the public consciousness after Masahiko Kimura’s fight with Helio Gracie in 1951, the mechanics and various applications of that shoulder lock were absolutely not some secret, second-method revelation to *most* grapplers prior to the modern sport jiu-jitsu era.

The idea that most grapplers don't know a "second method" of finishing a Kimura isn't because it's some esoteric technique lost to the sands of time. It's because the first method – the classic 'arm-behind-the-back' rotation – is so dang effective and universally taught. When people talk about a "second method," they're usually referring to one of a few things: the shoulder crank, which is often a result of having the elbow too high or too far from the body, leading to a straight-arm pressure that targets the shoulder capsule and rotator cuff without necessarily rotating the shoulder into internal rotation. Or, alternatively, the *straight armbar* that can be achieved if your opponent extends their arm against the lock and you pivot correctly on their wrist.

Let's be real: anyone who has spent more than a year consistently training no-gi jiu-jitsu or catch wrestling has, at some point, stumbled into a straight armlock finish from a Kimura grip. It's not a "second method" in the sense of a different, parallel technique; it's a natural counter or adaptation to how an opponent resists the initial, primary vector of force. If you’re pushing the elbow away from the head to crank the shoulder, you're just finishing the Kimura with a different leverage point, often due to poor setup or the opponent’s stubborn resistance. If they straighten the arm, you have an armbar. These aren't secret techniques; they're *responses* to the ever-evolving, fluid nature of a grappling exchange.

The fundamental truth about the Kimura, or any joint lock, is that it works by compromising a joint's natural range of motion. How you get there can vary, but the destination (a tap or a pop) remains the same. The notion of a "second method" implies a level of complexity or hidden knowledge that simply doesn't exist for what are essentially variations in application. You either break the shoulder with rotation, crank it with high elbow pressure, or extend the arm for an armbar. The 'secret' isn't knowing a different method; it's understanding the underlying mechanics of shoulder anatomy and leverage, and adapting to your opponent’s defense.

Do you really think Masahiko Kimura himself, or any of the old-school judoka and jujutsuka, were unaware that if you put rotational torque on a shoulder joint, and the person straightened their arm, you could just transition to an armbar? Come on. That’s like saying there’s a “second method” to finishing a rear-naked choke if your opponent defends their neck and you switch to a face crank. It's a natural progression, not some rediscovered gem.

Stephan's right, the second Kimura finish isn't something most places drill in the fundamentals. At my GB school, we hit the standard shoulder lock from side control in week three of the Fundamentals program, maybe a couple of variations from guard if we have extra time. But the wrist break isn't on the curriculum. It’s effective, absolutely, and I’ve seen it taught in some open mats by upper belts, but it's never part of the core technique instruction for newer students. They focus on the shoulder mechanics for safety and consistency. I think it’s a good example of how the structured curriculum prioritizes a more universal, less "advanced" application first.

The second Kimura finish Kesting often discusses, where you switch your hips and go for the wrist lock, is something I had to adapt away from pretty early on. My right wrist has some old damage from a bad fall back in '98, so putting that kind of torque on it, especially under pressure, just isn't worth the risk anymore. It’s a good example of how you sometimes need to listen to your body and work *around* certain positions or finishes, even if they're technically sound. For me, the standard shoulder attack is plenty. You learn what your body can and can't do when you're 53, and a lot of the time, that means avoiding certain angles to stay on the mats.

I think what Tom (gracie_barra_4yr) mentioned about how most places don't drill the second Kimura finish is true for us too. We only really work the standard shoulder lock from side control or sometimes from closed guard. I remember last Thursday, Coach brought up how important it is to secure the wrist *and* the elbow before you even think about finishing. We were drilling from half-guard bottom, trying to create enough space for the underhook. It’s hard enough to get that first finish locked in, let alone switching to something else. I wonder how often higher belts actually go for that wrist lock finish in rolling. It feels like a big step to add another layer of complexity when I'm still trying to get the basics down solid.

The wrist lock finish on the Kimura is definitely underutilized by most, but it’s not really a secret for no-gi guys. We go for it a lot from half guard or mount when the standard shoulder attack isn’t there, especially against someone strong who is bridging hard. With no gi to grip, you're always looking for ways to isolate the limb and create leverage. It's a standard submission for guys like Lachlan Giles, who have built entire no-gi systems around the position. If you're only training the IBJJF points game, you might not see the value, but for sub-only, it's a solid finish.